KB: India as you know is doing very poorly as far as the economy is concerned. India which was among the top three to five countries in terms of growth for several years, is currently ranked 164th. From 2016 onwards growth has been tumbling down and in each successive years the growth has been less than the previous year—this has never happened before for four successive years.
What is of even greater concern is the malnutrition data which has been released. They show that in 13 of the 22 states covered by the study, stunting among children has grown. This increase in stunting is shocking because malnutrition tends to get reduced every year. That it has grown over a four-year period between 2015 and 2019 is terrible. Growth numbers fluctuate, go up and come down and then go up again. But malnutrition going up and it affects not the middle class or even the lower middle class but the very poor—sets you back and shows that the ‘present’ is being neglected. Why do you think this is happening?
RG: It is because of enormous concentration of wealth and capital in the hands of a few, which is bound to create tension and social problems…there will be other kinds of cost that will have to be paid later. Demonetisation and the GST were designed to destroy the small businesses. The Prime Minister shares the vision of a handful of capitalists owning all the wealth. When I speak to small shopkeepers, they tell me ‘RaastaSaaf Ho Raha Hai’ (they are clearing the obstacles). What the PM does not seem to understand is that small businesses and Agriculture generate jobs for millions.
India’s economic woes are because of a lack of demand. But the Government sees it as a supply side problem. Fine but then bolster millions of small businesses and not just the same 10 people. When millions of migrant workers hit the street after the lockdown, the Government refused to pay even for their bus fare but handed over Rs 1.5 lakh Crore, well, to the same 10 people.
I would say this has been an old idea in India that if you are poor, you are worthless. In reality they are our assets and have great potential to add to our output, which is why we must invest in them…
KB: You spoke of Agriculture. When I first read about the farm laws, I thought they were in the right direction. But I was alerted by the farmers’ protest and I decided to go back and study the laws. It was then that I understood that while the laws looked right, they would be devastating. I have taken a public position in opposing the farm laws. What is your view?
RG: To put it simply, there are three laws. The first destroys the farmers’ market. The second allows big business unlimited storage of grains and cereals and dictate prices—one of them already stores 40 per cent of the cereals produced—and the third law says that if farmers want to contest the price, they cannot go to court.
The Prime Minister wants agriculture to be more efficient. What he doesn’t understand is that the inefficient agriculture that we have still provides protection to millions of people— it works as a shock absorber to people. When migrant workers lost their livelihood after the pandemic, why did they walk back home? Because that is where they felt protected, where they would be able to eat and survive.
The trouble is that the Government is not thinking it through. Unlike earlier governments, they don’t want to negotiate. Take GST. We realized the complexities and that is why the discussions were so long-drawn. We understood that we had to be cautious and we were being warned to be careful. If we had implemented the GST it would have been a long drawn out affair but at the end of it, small businessmen would not have said, oh, my god, I cannot fill up this form.
People tell me that the idea behind GST was good but the implementation was bad. My rejoinder is what is an idea without the implementation factored in it? An idea is good only if you know how to implement it
